06/16/2009 09:00:58 AM EST
The "small" insurance company I work for has been outsourcing large programming projects to a company in India. The price is right for it. This practice has to have an effect on the numbers here in the United States.
United StatesMichael Moynihan
06/16/2009 09:54:09 AM EST
As an adjunct professor of CS at a local community college, I always pointed out to my students that because of blantant age discrimination (sometimes called "outsourcing" or "offshoring"), a typical software career lasts about as long as a typical football career. BTW, I'm still writing software for a living, and I'm nearly 60.
United StatesTX CHL Instructor
06/16/2009 10:25:40 AM EST
Business abuses the H1-B visa program and imports cheap, poor-quality replacement developers. Pay is flat or declining in real dollars. Developers also face a fuzzy career path where they top out after a few years and can only advance by moving to management.
Why would you want to do this job? Go into a real engineering field instead.
06/16/2009 10:50:48 AM EST
While I agree with the above comment, to an extent. 'Less is not always more' the indsustry did this to itself. Investment in short term positions is always a mistake. Contracting out jobs is short term savings, but long term a small team of solid development personnel is a huge value. In this day and age of ever evolving markets, you cant just keep hitting the reset button. A 'phoenix' is not evolution; its revolution. Revolution creates a new starting point but starts with little or no experience.
06/16/2009 10:54:55 AM EST
@Nuke, H1B has wage restrictions. Also, the companies utilizing the services of H1 workers offer them pay equivalent to what they have to pay to a US citizen; it's never cheap. I really am surprised how ignorant people can get on these things and then be judgmental about it. H1B worker should never be confused with "offshoring" or "outsourcing" -- they are two different things.
And lets not talk (at least not generalize) about quality of work. I've seen both sides of it.
06/16/2009 11:45:46 AM EST
The beginning of this article talks about downward changes to academic "projections" in the number of programmers then analyzes these projections as if they were actual changes. Toward the end, it talks about actual increases in student enrollment, and compares this trend to projection changes. Seems like a lot of of hot air and wasted data bits to me. Did the number of programmers actually decline in 2000-present? If so, and the number of student enrollment is now increasing, then analyze that!
06/16/2009 11:47:24 AM EST
H1B costs more than off-shoring, but they are indeed paid about 10% to 15% less than permanent residents. I've heard of cases where consulting first were recruiting foreigners for H1B visas that hadn't yet won the contracts to put them on. (So much for claim that "We have this work to do and cannot find anyone locally to do it.") Before there was off-shoring you'd sometimes see a job ad with offered pay about 50% below the going rate -- just so that the employer could say, "We tried to hire someone locally, but no one responded to our ad."
As for the suggesting of going into a "real" engineering field, I think engineers also quickly top out in pay unless they move into management. It's just that engineers in management still call themselves engineers, whereas IT people in management no longer call themselves programmers.
The pay for programmers (and non-management engineers) has always been significantly lower than that for other professions requiring comparable intelligence, but programming seems to be more within the capabilities of highly intelligent people with mild autism-like mental deficits that preclude them from management and many other occupations.
Computing may become more popular with students as we get around to off-shoring many of the jobs in medicine and law. Who knows, American corporations may soon discover that they can also outsource many of their executive management functions to India at a tenth of the pay.
06/22/2009 09:37:16 AM EST
I'm a software developer, and I've never been more busy. How are you counting guys like me? There will always be a need for local developers, but it may be decreasing. It's what you know and how fast you can adapt to new markets.
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