1/30/2010 9:47:36 PM #

They have written a compiler for PHP, so the Facebook version will not be a dynamic language but a pre-compiled type safe language. This will typically speed up a language like PHP by a factor of 10.

Anthony

1/30/2010 10:11:09 PM #

You know what other languages I can shoot myself in the foot with as well? C, C++, Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, Scala, ASP, C#, VB... Seriously, any idiot can write code that follows poor security practices. Beating on that dead horse is getting really, really old.

PHP Guy

1/30/2010 11:14:29 PM #

I'm guessing it's a JIT compiler, since there already exist stand-alone byte-encoders...

Richard Lynch

1/31/2010 3:01:35 AM #

aha! so there is a top-secret Dr. Strangelovian FB bunker!

jthing

1/31/2010 3:21:37 AM #

Why not do something like Quercus? I mean target one of the available virtual machines -- JVM, Parrot etc.

Shantanu Kumar

1/31/2010 4:26:08 AM #

Type safety is nothing to do with any security practices, poor or otherwise.
It's a completely different pony...
Aren't all the byte encoders about encrypting source code rather than anything to do with execution speed?

davethemac

1/31/2010 7:38:44 AM #

A recent interview with an employee before revealed that some guy in facebook is really cranking up something. Clue? "HyperPHP","compiled PHP"

Lance

2/1/2010 1:21:24 PM #

Wow -- what an amazing article. PHP is not designed for the workloads that Java and .NET are? Seriously? You're really drinking a nice mix of Sun/Microsoft koolaid.

And then you throw in a nice gestapo reference when talking about the Israeli-founded Zend. Nice.

Zielff Dola

2/1/2010 2:41:10 PM #

Although there is some interest in keeping the language and making it better, my company has been thinking the same thing for a long time.

Our result: OPA (at http://mlstate.com) is a new platform for make web applications that are secure and scalable.

Of course, it is compiled and statically checked, but there's a lot more into it.

Henri

2/1/2010 3:36:21 PM #

A JIT compiler would be awesome! Also in response to the byte encoders as encrypters comment, no they're not just for encrypting source code. Take a look at some of the PHP documentation about basic mathematic expressions in PHP. They're turned into bytecode at runtime so they are much faster than interpreted code.

AwesomeBob

2/1/2010 3:59:14 PM #

Maybe they could support the Parrot VM. Is a much better idea that working only on PHP. Besides, with Parrot you can run lots of languages... from perl6 to javascript!

Vlad

2/1/2010 4:04:09 PM #

Just to add... Parrot is intended to support a lots of problems at VM level instead of language-implementation level, from autothreading to basic stuff as adding, substracting, etc...

"Parrot is essentially a language independent base for building runtimes for bytecompiled languages"

And, of course, Parrot will run PHP too

Vlad

2/1/2010 4:04:30 PM #

I can't apprehend that .Net is faster than php. In any case, I definitely look forward to the facebook version of php, if its faster, then why not, webmasters will love to jump on it.

Diesel Station

2/1/2010 4:07:46 PM #

Hi Alex, Have a look at therumpus.net/.../?full=yes A facebook employee reveals three weeks ago that Facebook has been doing this PHP compiler.

JohnP

2/1/2010 4:08:41 PM #

Really wished something that targeted the JVM (and interop-ed with the Java Class Library) - it would, at the very least, promote PHP to a really viable front-end/template/view renderer on Java Systems, and also push forward the efforts towards JVMs in shared hosting facilities (which are nowadays the Achilles' heel for Java and all the JVM-targeting languages, and an area where PHP shines)

Chester

2/1/2010 4:09:19 PM #

If it's not a frontend to llvm, they wasted their money

lxnt

2/1/2010 4:09:50 PM #

Hah, it could be a compiler that compiles to Java or .NET bytecode, so that they can leverage all of the useful APIs from these platforms, whilst retaining full PHP compatibility (and with a speedup of around 5x) so they don't have to do a platform rewrite. They can then drop the generated results (with a FaceBookPHPServlet) into a web application container that supports both .php and .jsp (compiled by the web application container). But yeah, a static PHP -> native compiler is probably what they've done.

JeeBee

2/1/2010 4:10:20 PM #

forced to sign NDA's What? Someone pointed a gun and said sign? Impartial reporting aside, it looks like an interesting development.

Andrew

2/1/2010 4:11:01 PM #

This should be very interesting! Definitely going to keep a close eye on this one

Sean Nieuwoudt

2/1/2010 4:11:29 PM #

I doubt they've turned php into a statically typed language. Something tells me that's impossible without restricting the language. My guess is they're probably employing many of the techniques used in Google's V8 javascript engine.

Vijay Santhanam

2/1/2010 4:12:16 PM #

This interview with a Facebook employee goes a little more in-depth. It'll be called Hyper-PHP, be a compiled language, and supposedly make Facebook about 10x faster. therumpus.net/.../?full=yes

Kevin

2/1/2010 4:12:51 PM #

Three comments, how much sifting could that take?

Ted

2/1/2010 4:13:20 PM #

There's been ironPHP on .NET and Quercus for running PHP on Java. But I'd love to see one for ... erlang.

Jonathan

2/1/2010 4:13:49 PM #

Wow -- what an amazing article. PHP is not designed for the workloads that Java and .NET are? Seriously? You're really drinking a nice mix of Sun/Microsoft koolaid. And then you throw in a nice gestapo reference when talking about the Israeli-founded Zend. Nice.

Jason

2/1/2010 4:14:24 PM #

It's going to be interesting to see what they have made, but what is really interesting is whether they disclose why they did to PHP whatever it is they have done. Why as in why PHP, why not something else.

Michael

2/1/2010 4:14:52 PM #

Rumpus: So tell me about the engineers. Employee: They’re weird, and smart as balls. For example, this guy right now is single-handedly rewriting, essentially, the entire site. Our site is coded, I’d say, 90% in PHP. All the front end — everything you see — is generated via a language called PHP. He is creating HPHP, Hyper-PHP, which means he’s literally rewriting the entire language. There’s this distinction in coding between a scripted language and a compiled language. PHP is an example of a scripted language. The computer or browser reads the program like a script, from top to bottom, and executes it in that order: anything you declare at the bottom cannot be referenced at the top. But with a compiled language, the program you write is compiled into an executable file. It doesn’t have to read the program from beginning to end in order to execute commands. It’s much faster that way. So this engineer is converting the site from one that runs on a scripted language to one that runs on a compiled language. However, if you went to go talk to him about basketball, you would probably have the most awkward conversation you’d have with a human being in your entire life. You just can’t talk to these people on a normal level. If you wanted to talk about basketball, talk about graph theory. Then he’d get it. And there’s a lot of people like that. But by golly, they can do their jobs. Rumpus: So what will be the net effect of running the site on Hyper PHP? Employee: We’re going to reduce our CPU usage on our servers by 80%, so practically, users will just see this as a faster site. Pages will load in one fifth of the time that they used to. Rumpus: When’s it coming out? Employee: When it’s done. Next couple of months, ideally. therumpus.net/.../?full=yes

Al

2/1/2010 4:15:35 PM #

So have you heard about this recent interview with a dude from Facebook who mentions a thing called Hyper-PHP? /s

Bert

2/1/2010 4:16:07 PM #

what about Ruby or Python? can't they re-write it in one of these?

Keshan

2/1/2010 4:16:40 PM #

Come on, news? This has been out for weeks as HyperPHP. Please don't try to spin this is as some news scoop that you got through some coincidental sederial alignment.

Joe

2/1/2010 4:17:07 PM #

It sounds good that the facebook take's the initiative for the performance of PHP like in memcache

WebKul

2/1/2010 4:17:37 PM #

"Hah, it could be a compiler that compiles to Java or .NET bytecode, so that they can leverage all of the useful APIs from these platforms, whilst retaining full PHP compatibility (and with a speedup of around 5x) so they don't have to do a platform rewrite" That already exists JeeBee; it's call Phalanger: http://www.codeplex.com/Phalanger Looks like it had been abandoned for a while, but last I heard it could run Wordpress and much more without modification: http://www.php-compiler.net/doku.php?id=apps

toby

2/1/2010 4:18:03 PM #

I haven't used PHP much since starting to support the enterprise environments (this is nearly the result of the clients not trusting Open Source) - but if it's that much faster, and compiled, I just might give is a try again and see what happens. As of now, I use it here and there to submit forms - nothing serious. Thanks for the heads up.

Justin

2/1/2010 4:18:28 PM #

As long as we are in the realm of speculation, my vote is for the PHP compiling to the Erlang VM. .

ram

2/1/2010 4:18:55 PM #

I hope you're right. A major speed boost to PHP would be very appreciated. PHP isn't usually a serious bottleneck compared to proper caching and proper use of compression but every little bit helps. For those that are saying PHP isn't slower than Java or other languages you've obviously never done side-by-side comparisons. I think PHP is a great tool but for certain operations such as turning large amounts of data into other forms of large amounts of data it is obviously much much slower. By rewriting those operations in Java or even Python something that takes a week can be done in a day or even half a day. IMO that is a huge difference. Of course you can write it in C and create your own PHP built-in function that will do it but that isn't really 'in PHP'. And yes I have datasets with gigs of information that I occasionally process into smaller, easier to use, datasets. I wouldn't try to get PHP to do this work.

MikeFM

2/1/2010 4:19:22 PM #

Now this is good news! PHP deals with many problems and inconsistencies since the beginning of its existence. They are there due to the lack of concern with the future of the language like OOP, code conventions and many other stuff. PHP is a great language, but it could be even nicer if those things were fixed (and backwards compatibility broken). Now I believe it can happen, and I'm really excited to see what Facebook is gonna present us on Tuesday!

Felipe Ribeiro

2/1/2010 4:19:53 PM #

Obviously, you know nothing about PHP. Even your pathetic blog is written in .Net. Go wallow in your little virtual machine, balmer's fan boy!

Mumpus

2/1/2010 4:20:25 PM #

Really curious to see what they release on this.

Brandon L. Barnett

2/1/2010 4:20:55 PM #

I've been reliably informed by PHP internals folks several times that Zend have done effectively nothing for PHP's internals in years, so saying what they do or don't think is a write-off. But seriously am I the only person that thinks whatever Facebook are playing at is gonna be worthless?

streaky

2/1/2010 4:22:27 PM #

I would be more inclined to see Facebook has released a new J2EE platform for running PHP on (similar to http://quercus.caucho.com/ ) before seeing a PHP compiler. There's 2 problems with the statement. 1. PHP already has a compiler/interpretter. 2. If the code gets compiled and left (rather than thrown away today) it would require a change more so to the mod_php backend over a change to PHP itself.

John

2/1/2010 4:23:03 PM #

oh,good,I go!but how much sifting could that take?

angel

2/1/2010 4:23:33 PM #

This is a good news, because faster PHP is better PHP. The question is : which PHP version to follow ? if PHP 4.x or older version, IMO it will be wasteful since it 'legally' dead, and there are huge php programmer migration from PHP 4->PHP 5 if PHP 5.2.x, no namespace, static method problem, etc.. IMO, it mean ignoring some important features. if PHP 5.3.x, IMO, this will be the best choice (at least for me ), however depends on how long the 'rewriting' process since PHP 6.0 is on his way, so, it must be done before next PHP 5.x -> PHP 6.x migration wave. if PHP 6.0, too early....unless the 'PHP 6.0 standard specification' has been completed.

bandirsen

2/1/2010 4:23:59 PM #

If I'd have to place a bet, I would put my money on Facebook creating a PHP bytecode compiler and caching solution, much like what Zend is bundling with their Zend Server. Everybody who thinks integration with Java VM, .NET CLR and such... get real, please. Speculation is one thing, expressing our wet dreams is another Why on Earth would someone rewrite a PHP execution engine in .NET? And I ask this question because transliterating code between PHP and .NET/Java bytecode is something which requires implementing the specific PHP functionality in that runtime.

Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos

2/1/2010 4:24:31 PM #

Jeff Rothschild said in this webcast (http://cns.ucsd.edu/lecturearchive09.shtml#Roth), that they are about to compile PHP to C or C++. I wonder why they do not use a better language instead of the hazzle. They are in bed with MS anyway, so C# (maybe on mono) would be a good solution for them.

Heiner Wolf

2/1/2010 4:25:49 PM #

Wow -- what an amazing article. PHP is not designed for the workloads that Java and .NET are? Seriously? You're really drinking a nice mix of Sun/Microsoft koolaid. And then you throw in a nice gestapo reference when talking about the Israeli-founded Zend. Nice.

Zielff Dola

2/1/2010 4:26:41 PM #

Quercus already wrote a PHP compiler targeting the Java VM. Their initial performance claims were intriguing, but when they got around to comparing it to the regular PHP VM with the APC bytecode cache turned on, they admitted the performance was pretty much equivalent.

So I have my doubts about what Facebook could achieve without changing the rules of the language a bit to promote better performance. Which they may well have done. But if the changes are too restrictive, you have to ask yourself why you're not simply coding in Java.

Something similar happened when Adobe developed AS3 (ActionScript 3). Pressured to improve performance, they switched from standard JavaScript to a type-safe dialect. Yes, performance is better, but again you may as well learn Java.

Tom Boutell

2/1/2010 4:41:51 PM #

HAHAHAHAHHAHA!

Ah man I love reading these comments and how they degrade as the comments go on eventually ending up in drivel insulting one another.

Another technology platform, a way to polish another turd. Great bring it on and lets just make sure we have a spare server farm.

Thanks for the heads up though. By the way mine is bigger and faster than all of yours!

Just another developer

2/1/2010 4:54:25 PM #

Well, PHP needs alot to be a mature language.

sci3ntist

2/1/2010 5:46:51 PM #

PHP to native machine code compiler exists for several years now and it is called RoadSend.

http://www.roadsend.com/

Manuel Lemos

2/1/2010 7:04:09 PM #

Could be the first real use of http://www.phpcompiler.org/ ...?

Guy Taylor

2/2/2010 1:56:18 AM #

is that a good news ?

maliyan

2/2/2010 3:29:37 AM #

Might be something worth asking them about at the 2010 Southern California Linux Expo. Their program manager will be speaking there.

Anonymous

2/2/2010 9:57:31 AM #

I only hope this will not lead to a split in the php community and that the code written for Hyper PHP can also be used on regular PHP. Otherwise it will lead to confusion and people will end up not using PHP.

I would recommend that Facebook meet with the PHP developers group to discuss these changes.

ray